| Not this, the most perfect young horse ever? I can't believe how dark he still is, dude you're turning 6 this year! |
Friday December 16th to Sunday December 18th- We have the best rides! They were so fun and he was the best baby horse.
Monday December 19th- TC was a spaz at night, though he was great in between being really spooky and bolting a lot.
Tuesday December 20th- TC was great in the beginning, but then we took a walk break and then TC bolted basically through the rest of our ride.
Wednesday December 21st- TC was really really good, but he was behind my leg to the left and I mentioned him wanting to skitter right. I didn't mention it in the post, but it was mostly in the spooky corner and pretty much only to the left.
Thursday December 22nd- TC was very much behind my leg and balking, he did a small rear and the ride was going downhill quick before my friend spooked us and he went galloping around the arena. Then we had some really nice work.
Friday December 23rd- It was pouring rain so I just walked TC for 45 minutes
Saturday December 24th- TC begins by balking and running backwards at the mounting block. I kick him and he rears up, much bigger than Thursday. I rode him forward to another rear, then really lay into him and got him moving forward. Have the best ride ever once as he's in front of my leg.
Sunday December 25th- Decided that my safety was more important than his soundness and turned TC out in the covered round pen with the questionable footing. He bucked a LOT and had a blast. Didn't ride him.
Monday December 26th- Talked to the local vet in the morning who also does chiro/acupuncture, made an appointment for Thursday. That day I turned TC out, then rode him. He threatened to rear but I kept it very casual and didn't bait him to do it. Left the arena and got some really nice forward work in the field (though he still felt stilted and flat, but he was actually in front of my leg).
Tuesday December 27th- Turnout round pen was taken but the outdoor round pen was open. Took TC out there saddled up but with longeing stuff. He was quiet on the line, but forward both with and without side reins. A horse trotted over to him in turnout and he did what I considered a very docile bolt/spook/play. I got on after to just walk around and he was okay as long as I didn't put my leg on at all and didn't touch the reins. Any time I'd touch the reins he'd slow down and any time my leg went on he'd stop and look back at me. Went out in the other field (the one where he's usually nuts) and he was happy to trot away from the barn but when turned back, he would stop and pin his ears if my leg went on. A horse exploded in turnout and he casually picked up a canter and shook his head (unusually docile response) so I put my leg on to encourage him and he slammed to a halt and pinned looked at me.
Wednesday December 28th- Once again tacked up for longeing and had a GREAT school on the line in the round pen. He bucked and played a bit but I got some amazing work out of him. Thought it was all over, got on, and he would barely walk undersaddle. Same behavior as the day before. I didn't even try the field. After working I threw him in the round pen for turnout where he had a lot of fun. That night I hung out with Kate and she gave me some pop rocks just in case TC needs to be started on them. Decided to try chiro first and talk to the vet.
Thursday December 29th- Local vet came out and did chiro/acupuncture. She's sort of switching her focus from veterinary work to half vet and half chiro, which is really nice. I'm not the world's biggest believer in chiropractic work with horses, but having her also be a vet gives me a lot of peace of mind.
She checked his teeth and said they were okay, not bad enough to warrant a sudden change in behavior. Apparently chiropractically, this horse is a mess. He was way out in his poll and TMJ, out on one side at the C4 and the other at the C5. Out in both shoulders, though the left more than the right. Out in his sternum. VERY out in his lumbar area (and after the adjustment, his roach there went completely away...). Out in his pelvis, it tipped majorly down on the left side. And out in his sacrum.
Well okay. Whether that was enough to explain the rearing, she didn't know.
| His back has never been this flat |
Gone is the horse who wants so much to work and do his job, but is sometimes too amped up to stay with me mentally- he's now docile and his poor attempts at bolting are stopped when I put my leg on to encourage him to go forward. Gone is the horse with the flashy, sometimes terrifying, gaits- he's now completely flat and stilted both under saddle and loose if he's willing to move forward at all. Gone is the horse who always says yes, perhaps sometimes a bit too expressively- he now won't work under saddle at all, even when I'm giving him everything he's ever wanted- free reign to gallop around in the open.
| Still happy to be longed though |
And some of what I've heard from a few people is that he's being a jerk. Because they know him as this problem horse. He's rearing because he's five. Because he's trialing new behavior to get out of working (but um he never wants to not work). Because it's cold. Because it's raining. Because he's a naughty horse. Just longe him, don't ride him, leave him in his stall until the trainer comes back and let him ride out the rodeo and teach him that he can't rear (which is an appropriate thing to do if this was purely behavioral, don't get me wrong- I'm not opposed to that).
And I know that on this blog and if you've talked to me in person, this horse comes across as the ultimate asshole. It's been very un-fun to write about him here because I feel like I'm in an abusive relationship trying to justify to you and to myself (and my family) why I keep doing this. On good days, he's so good and sweet and perfect, I mean he just hits me sometimes and makes me hate myself and think I'm a terrible rider/horse owner. I'm sure every day you sign on to read this blog (if you still do, it's so painful to reread for me sometimes) and wonder whether my post is going to be about how the horse is showing me the true meaning of connection and elevation (he's seriously SO FUN) or whether I'm at my wits end with his physical or behavioral issues.
So throwing this new behavior into the "TC is an asshole" bin and sending him to a cowboy, or using it as the last straw to get rid of him, would be so easy. There goes TC again, Problem Horse(TM), back at it with a new naughty behavior.
| Refusing to move when being told that he can gallop around in the field with me |
He's not a person. He's not thinking in his little pea brain "I bet rearing would get me out of doing work" or "I should abruptly stop bolting and start rearing, that would fuck with her." It makes more sense that he's got a pain issue that started in the first week and keeps getting worse. He NEVER pins his ears. Even when he goes to bite or kick (he doesn't like his sheath being touched but fuck him, I'm not paying a vet to sedate him to clean it so he thinks I'm rude and picks up his feet when I do it), his ears are forward or he's making that stupid look on his face.
To me, this just screams ulcers. The vet confirmed that he's at a ripe age/workload for ulcers.
I want so desperately to believe that the bolting problem all along has been ulcers, but I know better than to think that. But the reality is that it could have started as early as plucking him from his pasture and moving him to the east bay. Or it could have started when he was on bute and in the tiny stall at rehab. Or when he came home and started being worked. Or when he had the stifle injury and was on bute/had a drop in exercise levels. Or when I started riding him in the morning before breakfast (horses produce stomach acid 24/7). Or it could be that as our relationship has been cracking over the last year and a half, the ulcers have been slowly developing.
| Where is my horse?! |
I've also ordered aloe gel for him and we're hoping to move to a new paddock this weekend when trainer gets back and can help shuffle horses around. I'm still looking into more supplements for him, so please share any experiences you might have had with ulcers and what worked out for you.
Hopefully all of this works. If not then I have other plans that I hope I never have to tell you about. Fingers crossed (AGAIN, my fingers are getting sore after the last year of keeping them crossed) for TC.
I had great results with both U7 gastric aid and Ulc-R-Aid (the AniMed product), and they're both pretty cheap. My mare went from trying to dump/kill me basically every ride to being able to work on the buckle in like 2 weeks -- total 180 in her behavior. I would be happy to go more in depth about her situation if you were at all interested.
ReplyDeleteHopefully you're able to figure out what the problem is and how to fix it quickly for everyone's sake!
Thanks! I'll definitely look into that. I'm for sure interested in hearing more about your mare, it sounds like a similar situation. As much as I'd hate to think TC has had ulcers/stomach issues for a long time, there's a large part of me hoping that this was causing the bolting too :/ would love to ride him on a loose rein! When I get a chance at work I'll email you!
DeleteSounds good! I try to avoid soliloquizing on other people's posts but am always happy to share my experiences if they're wanted :) I'll probably write you a novel in response to your email haha
DeleteUgh rearing is so scary! And poor TC. :( Crossing my fingers that ulcers are the issue! I've had good experiences with UlcerGard for a bout of ulcers that presented as a severe colic, and then used a slow feed hay net (24/7 forage) & alfalfa to maintain a happy gut after we treated with drugs.
ReplyDeleteI'll talk to the barn about feeding him in a slow feeder! Rico had one for a while so I bet I could grab that one. And actually I could probably bring in my own bale of hay and just do it myself if they can't... keeping him eating all day would be great!
DeleteAnd yah I've heard alfalfa is good, I was thinking of swapping out one of his grass flakes for alfalfa or just getting alfalfa pellets, will definitely look into that too.
I don't have any magic ulcer treatment. Stinker acts like he has ulcers (my gut and the vet agrees but we haven't scoped nor do I intend to ever scope) but there was zero change when I did a full treatment. I had him on the SmartPak supplement that did both stomach and hind gut support with no change. I got tired of seeing him toss my money on the ground (dumping his food and refusing to eat the supplements) so I switched him to ugard. Idk if I will see an improvement with that. I also always give him a snack of alfalfa cubes prior to riding to help combat the stomach acid. He always has hay in front of him unless he is in the pasture (there is very little grass out there unfortunately). So far none of this has made any difference in his behavior.
ReplyDeleteI hope the lifestyle changes and treatment plan gets TC back to his happy to work self.
Oh man that sucks. I'm super worried that I'm spending all this money for nothing and that there will be no change. Today though, he seemed surprisingly interested in his ground work and was using his abs better than he has been. Could just be me wanting to see a change though :/ I'll get on him Sunday if I can and hopefully he'll be willing to at least walk around with me on him!
DeleteI can email you with more details if you want, because my post was getting way too long. But the short version is I think the lack of response is related to the EPM, so that shouldn't apply to TC. But it is long and convoluted and may or may not be accurate because there is minimal research on EPM.
DeleteInteresting! I never knew that EPM could interact with meds like that. I'll take any information I can with this whole thing! Ugh I just want a healthy, sound, and sane horse, why is that so hard to get?!
DeleteMy 5 yr old TB had an abrupt behavior change in hand and under saddle 2 weeks after I bought him, moved him to a new farm, and started work. I suspected ulcers and decided to treat without scoping, as I had done the whole scope + full course of treatment for my last horse, to the tune of $1,600.
ReplyDeleteI was looking for an affordable alternative for ulcer treatment (ha!) and stumbled across a study published March 2016 in the Journal of Equine Veterinary medicine "A Comparison Between Omeprazole and a Dietary Supplement for the Management of Squamous Gastric Ulceration in Horses". Basically, my interpretation was that the supplement Succeed was non-inferior to Omeprazole for the treatment of ulcers. So I bought Succeed, treated for 60 days ($200) and my horse seems fine.
I followed up with UGARD to maintain stomach health, and switched to TC Senior (low NSC). Have been really pleased with the results.
Good luck!
Interesting! I'll have to go find that article. I've heard super good things about succeed so maybe that will be a good maintenance supplement for him. Thanks!
DeleteHere is the link if you want to read the published study:
Deletehttp://www.j-evs.com/action/doSearch?searchType=quick&searchText=omeprazole&occurrences=all&journalCode=yjevs&searchScope=fullSite
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DeleteI'm no scientist, but this study seems to me to read that Succeed will heal existing ulcers equally as well as a full course of Omeprazole.
DeleteWhich is huge news for those of us on a budget and/or with uninsured horses.
Awesome! Succeed is definitely at the top of my list to try. It's a touch expensive (given that he's on some fairly expensive supplements already), but if I can pull him from the calming supplement and maybe do a cheaper joint supplement, then I'll for sure do it! Trying to prioritize all these things is tough! Lol
DeleteInteresting! More ammo to stuff away in the back of my head :-)
DeleteA couple thoughts based on the fact that I have been going thru a similar thing (minus scary behavior) since fall.. 1) trust your instincts and tune out those who say its not physical. You know this horse better than any one. I am learning this the hard way. 2) I have had the same problem of horse who loves to work (even though he's a challenging ride sometimes) suddenly and increasingly NOT loving to work. And I was told ride him thru it, its his age etc... Long story short, I intend to scope for ulcers as soon as I can schedule the vet AND on a hunch (that I had two months ago and listened to others who dismissed it) I put hoof testers on the horse who has lovely feet and in his first year of work only got front shoes and found that he was so reactive behind that he clearly has needed those hind shoes, probably for months. So, his work ethic was slowly and consistently eroding and it was due, in part I am sure to increasing foot soreness. I still am scoping as I am not sure I have solved the whole puzzle, but if he was in pain for a few months while TRYING to be a good boy ulcers would make sense. My point being if you haven't looked at foot pain you might consider it and two I cannot state strongly enough TRUST YOUR INSTINCT!
ReplyDeleteThanks! My farrier should be coming out soon so I'll definitely ask her to double check his feet. They've been fairly strong but I wouldn't put it past him to have foot issues too, ugh lol
DeleteI know you are fully capable of dealing with TC because Rico (though perfect) wasn't always perfect! Perfect Ponies are made not born! :D You can do this!
ReplyDeleteRICO WAS ALWAYS PERFECT! According to him at least lol thanks for all your support :) :) I always forget that I had so many problems with Rico too, maybe TC is just front loading the struggling so we can enjoy a long and very successful FEI career together.
DeleteUgh I hear your frustration loud and clear. Changes in behavior are always so troubling. You've got a great sense for TC tho, and a great support system. Fingers crossed you get it all sorted. Fwiw Im currently trying jeremiah's ulcer repulser at the recommendation of my dressage trainer. Too early to see any changes, nor do I really expect many changes for my particular horse... But it's something else for the list
ReplyDeleteOooo let me know how that works out, though the name amuses me enough where I might just get it lol fingers crossed it helps Charlie and that both of our horses are feeling good as new by the time show season starts :) we're about to go down the bodywork path too
DeleteOh geez, how stressful. I have two ulcer stories to share. Hope they help in some small way.
ReplyDeleteApollo seemed very unsound about two years ago. He was very rude and wouldn't track up properly. I had the vet out and was talked into injecting his hind fetlocks. No change. I had pretty much decided he was retired and destined for a trail life only. I did an ulcer treatment (a weird hippie one, not the proper vet one because I frankly couldn't afford it). And he was incredibly sound and happy, and so willing to work.
Henry did the formal (omeprazone/succeed) vet recommended ulcer protocol after he started his initial breaking under saddle. He will be on aloe vera juice and a pro-biotic (equine choice) for life. I suspect a yearly ulcer treatment will be happening also. I also give acid fx before I ride, which was recommended by an equine nutritionist and seems to help.
Best of luck! Ulcers are such a funny thing. Of note, both of my horses live in a pasture and came up with ulcers... which makes no sense. But it was a very weird weather year.
Interesting! I'm going to try ranitidine before riding but if that falls short I'll definitely look into acid fx. I think my mom has one of her horses on a prebiotic, I'll look into that too. And he just started aloe gel today (and was willing to eat it phew)! I'm hoping that helps a lot, he seemed better today but I don't know how much that's just me wanting him to be better.
DeleteNot going to insert too much here but will say I treated Annie with over 30 days of AbGard and then continued to use when we travelled and it was quite helpful. I have no proof that she actually had ulcers but now that she is insured I will get her scoped if I ever have suspicions. Have been meaning to try pop rocks so I'll be interested to see what they do.
ReplyDeleteYah I definitely need to do something for him in the future when he starts traveling more, I'll look into AbGard, it'd be nice to not have to do ulcerguard every time we want to go somewhere! The horse seems to think I'm made of money lol
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ReplyDeleteI've really only had consistent success with omperazole or ranitidine. My favorite is ranitidine because I can buy the people over-the-counter dosage in bulk from Amazon. No prescription needed and I don't have to clean out the local CVS! I've seen behavior changes in as little as three days once starting ranitidine.
ReplyDeleteI've got some ranitidine on order! I'll for sure look into Amazon, right now I'm getting it from a friend who buys it in bulk, we'll see what is cheaper. The only issue I've had with it is that my vet said it needs to be fed every 8 hours to work well. When I had Rico on it, that was easy because he was at home and I was in grad school with a very flexible schedule. But I think with TC, I'm going to try giving it just before I ride (along with some aloe too) to work as an antacid. I took both ranitidine and omeprazole for my own ulcers and they worked super well!
DeleteAhhh grad school and the flexible schedule. That's the only thing I miss about grad school ;) I'll cross my fingers for you - I'd bet the ulcer meds will change TC's life. Friends of mine swear by aloe vera too. I have a colt in for training now that is a bit of a delicate flower. It's a dramatic difference when he's off his meds (har) and when he's being treated. He can actually focus and work and do his job without panic or being hyper-reactive. Good luck!
DeleteSame! Every now and then I get it in my head that I want to go back but even with the rigid schedule, I think I'm doing better now! I really hope I get my horse back- I mean ideally the one who doesn't bolt so much but I'll take the bolting over the rearing/refusing to work any day!
DeleteI know we talked a while back about it... I tried ugard for Penn (little to no change), and I think I'm going to try the ranitidine before riding (I totally didn't know you could buy it in bulk from amazon). Penn is a little nippy about the saddle/girth and his blankets, so ulcers are always in the back of my mind. Trainer's 4* horse did a round of ulcer meds after becoming extremely difficult to ride (not that he was easy before, but he was not a happy worker)- one week into it he was giving her, "why sure, I can do that" answers. I hope it helps TC!
ReplyDeleteYah I'm curious to see how the ranitidine works before riding! It's so weird, I've heard of ulcery horses not wanting their saddle put on or girth tightened but TC never cared, it was only if my leg went on or he had to engage his hindquarters. Rico always nipped about the saddle so there was nothing to compare to when he got them. It's so weird how they all present a little differently.
DeleteWhen I read this, I thought ulcers too -- a total change in behavior like that doesn't scream "attitude adjustment" to me, it sounds like pain. Hopefully the ulcer treatment works!
ReplyDeleteThanks! I'm glad I don't seem crazy- there were people at the barn who seemed skeptical about ulcers. I'm really hoping this works!
DeleteLiquorice root. And following through with your plan to put TC back into a turnout/pasture situation. That's where he was living when you met him and didn't have behavior problems...
ReplyDeleteI'll look into it, thanks! I think his behavior problems might be caused by not being out, but he was also only 3 when I met him (vs the evil 5yo year lol), maintained a lower body weight than I like, was best to shit every day (had cuts all over him), and was quite uncoordinated. He still bolted, but it was like 4 steps into canter vs the more extreme response now that could be explained by him being stronger and more coordinated. But I'm willing to try it and I hope you're right that his behavior problems were caused by being in a stall!
DeleteOh man, that does sound like ulcers. Poor TC, and poor you!
ReplyDeleteI second what everyone else has said... get a slow-feed haynet and add some alfalfa to his diet. That more than anything helps loads. Also, feed him a hay snack while you're tacking him up. I've noticed that a half a flake before riding (especially if they haven't had anything in front of them for a few hours) can make a huge difference in attitude. Magnesium supplements help too. I haven't had much luck with aloe juice though, or with ranitadine, but everyone is different. (You can buy both ranitadine and omeprazole from Costco fyi - cheaper than Amazon). Blue pop rocks work great though and are waaaaay cheaper and easier to feed than Uguard. However you do need to order in advance because they can take a long time to ship. You may also check with a local compounding pharmacy and see if they will mix you up a batch of omeprazole... I haven't tried it myself, but I know it can be done (pharmacist friend).
Good luck!
He's on 10,000mg of magnesium with his calming supplement but that's good info for when I take him off of it! I'll definitely keep him on some no matter what. And yah for sure need to add more alfalfa (he's on one flake out of five) and hopefully a slow feeder to his life! And maybe I'll figure out the logistics of getting a bale of my own hay to keep there so I can give him extra food before I ride him...
DeleteMy vet said the thing with omeprazole and horses that's tough is that their stomachs usually kill the meds before they get to the small intestine. She said so far ulcer/faster guard is the only one that has the ability to get through the stomach. Though she said the pop rocks might also, she hadn't looked into that. She was hopeful that the patent was going to be released from ulcerguard soon so the price will hopefully plumet!
I've had a lot of luck with ranitidine, though I was pretty good about doing 3 doses/day and as close to 8 hrs apart. I have heard that 2 doses/day can work well though too. For what its worth, the best pricing I have found is actually from Wal-Mart (equate brand). They sell a two-pack, 130 pills total, for $7. Comes out to almost 5.5 cents per pill. When I checked at Costco, they were more of 7 cents per pill.
ReplyDeleteThat's good to know! I've got it on order now from a friend but if it works I might just keep it on hand, those are awesome prices!
DeleteI feel like treating for ulcers is a logical next step, because other than $$$ its a fairly safe treatment if there is or isn't ulcers there. I know I get crabby when my stomach hurts, its a logical assumption that a horse being reactive, especially to the leg, may have pain in that area. I'm sure it being winter isn't helping. Man, if we could just get horses to talk, life would be easier. Although I'm not sure I wanna hear all that my mare has to say :I Good luck!.
ReplyDeleteYah I've had a stomach ulcer and it's freakishly painful! I don't blame him for saying that he doesn't want to work. Ugh I wish he could talk too, but I think he'd call me at work and want to talk my ear off so maybe not...
DeleteMisoprostol is what I would recommend for ulcers. I think it's like $160 for a 30-day supply?
ReplyDeleteOooo I'll look into that! Thanks!
DeleteJust thinking, if he's still happy to be longed, hasn't your riding changed since you are worried sick about Rico? Maybe from a little too much hand (which could provoke bolting) to too much leg and a stiff seat? If your legs are too tense to his liking he could react by pushing his rib cage against them (balking, and eventually rearing). He seems like a sensitive pony. :)
ReplyDeleteDon't give up yet.
He'd gotten worse about longeing between that last day and Tuesday so I think he was feeling sicker. I feel confident enough in my riding even when I'm worried about Rico where I would at least notice if I was having position problems. In addition, I've ridden a fair amount of other horses in that time and had no problems with them (except when one of Kate's horses tried to dump me lol) so it's definitely something related to him vs me. He already seems more interested in working after 4 days of ulcerguard so fingers crossed for trying to ride Sunday!
DeleteIt's so interesting to me how much his journey sounds like Estella's! Even her lumbar area used to be roached and her pelvis is always out it with being forward on the left side. So, so interesting!
ReplyDeleteYou're right, that's not naughty, that's super weird. I had good luck with the pop rocks for testing a possible ulcer diagnosis, saw a change very quickly, so there's hope for a quick answer to the latest TC puzzle. Good luck! Isn't it weird to hope for ulcers? At least I was when I ordered the pop rocks since I didn't know what else to try for the new, very rude behavior on the ground.
ReplyDeletePlease read this article, it will make you feel better or at least give you a little chuckle :)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.chronofhorse.com/article/no-kicking-cans
There's some evidence that oil supplementation helps prevent gastric ulceration too. I'll see if I can find the paper for you.
ReplyDeleteI've been using UlcerAid, Probios, and Aloe Juice(from TJs) for Nilla's ulcer prevention. We used Ulcerguard to actually heal the ulcers, and now all that is just for prevention. We also added an entire bale of hay in an ultra slow feed net so she has hay in front of her 24/7 if she wants it. She still gets her feedings by the barn, but the bale is always available. The 24/7 access to hay was one of the vet's suggestions.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to be working, but I haven't had her scoped so I couldn't say for 100% sure.